Author Topic: Defining what we do  (Read 703 times)

Hainesy

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Defining what we do
« on: July 23, 2010, 02:42:24 PM »
Defining what we do

Note: This is a serious thread.  If you want to make funny comments or annoy people that fine, but don't do it in this thread.  Do it here instead.


Everyone has a slightly different definition of parkour.  If we continue to inform the public about parkour with our own unique definition then we run the risk of the public getting confused and believing the easiest definition, 'kids who do risky flips'.

I believe that if we want to convince the public parkour is safe, and that it is a good way of life for people to follow, then we need to have a community definition of parkour.  I understand that parkour means different things to people, but I believe there is a common strain running through what we do.  This is both physical and mental.

I would guess that many on this forum believe that parkour is reach and escape movement.  And many people in other countries would disagree, believing parkour to be something else.  But how can the people on this forum argue against those elsewhere if this forum can't even reach an agreement on what parkour is. With so many different definitions it becomes nearly impossible to gain a clear understanding about what parkour actually is.

If you believe this is just semantics and pointless arguing I think that is quite wrong.  You can't define parkour just by showing them movements, you have to use words.  And people (especially those in positions of power that can affect all tracuers) can't get a clear picture of parkour with the words we are using.  Sooner or later some extreme country will try to make laws on parkour, and they will define it.  I think us as a community should define it now, not wait for someone outside the community to define it later.

A perfect definition would be three or so sentances that defines the essence of parkour, with a tracuer able to add onto that their own beliefs about what parkour is to them.


I would like to help engage a healthy debate within the community (of the APA) so we can come to an agreed understanding of what parkour is and how to define it.  I would like to see the same happen for the other three movements of Freerunning, Art of Displacement and Urban Acrobatics.  When the APA as a community has debated and agreed on a definition on what those types of human movement are, we can expand our community discussion to include all of Australian tracuers (people from PKAus or other places).  If the APA has a different view to a different group of Australian tracuers we will be able to again have a discussion and point out the reasons for what we believe.

To this end I have read the parkourpedia definitions of parkour, freerunning, AoD and Urban acrobatics.  I have created a summary definition of those four movements only from APA approved material.  It is my hope that these can be a starting point from which we can work to gain a fuller and more comprehensive definition of parkour that we can all stand behind.



Parkour – Efficient human movement with a set philosophy behind it.  The movement involves running, jumping and climbing in the fastest, safest way in a reach or escape emergency situation.  The philosophy includes self-improving (moving through fear, once is never), safety (to be and to last) and helping others (be strong to be useful).

ADD (Art of Displacement) – Creative human movement with a set philosophy behind it.  The movement involves running, jumping and flipping and is supposed to look spectacular.  The philosophy includes self-improving (moving through fear, once is never), safety (to be and to last) and helping others (be strong to be useful).

Freerunning – Creative human movement with a persons own philosophy behind it.  The movement involves running, jumping and flipping and is supposed to look spectacular.  The philosophy includes, but is not limited to, self-improving (moving through fear, once is never), safety (to be and to last) and finding your own way (focus is on the individual).  You can add your own philosophies to freerunning.

Urban Acrobatics - Creative human movement with no set philosophy.

Re: Defining what we do
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2010, 03:04:43 PM »
But how can the people on this forum argue against those elsewhere if this forum can't even reach an agreement on what parkour is.

By using evidence. The ill informed are usually the ones who say Parkour is whatever they want to say it is, if you read, watch videos and generally research it is pretty clearly defined by David Belle. I believe there is room for interpretation within the definitions, but many people take it too far and completely reinterpret what has been said.

I like to keep things simple, as I define them:

Parkour – A training method revolving around overcoming obstacles with the aim of improving oneself.

Freerunning – The exploration of human movement which evolved out of Parkour.

ADD – French people doing Freerunning.

I would like to help engage a healthy debate within the community (of the APA) so we can come to an agreed understanding of what parkour is and how to define it.

IMO this has already been done, over and over again, and not just on this forum. The issue is that new people come along and ignore what has already been said and are ill informed. IMO there is really nothing to 'debate', it's all defined, all the info is out there.

The important thing I feel is to truely understand it yourself so when you talk to people about it you can have an actual conversation and not just regurgitate things you've read or what others have said. That also allows you to give different explanations of the same thing, from my experience over the years, people understand different things. You can give two people the same definition, one will get it, the other will have no idea what you're talking about.
Obsessed is just a word the lazy use to describe the dedicated.

Australian Parkour Association
Parkourpedia

Re: Defining what we do
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2010, 05:26:27 PM »
+1 Sample,

The Parkourpedia definition is pretty spot on AND it is long winded. Which means that as practitioners and representatives of Parkour (as defined in PKpedia) we must be able to modify, abridge and elaborate on it in any situation, to be understood by any audience, often when out of breath and sweating profusely.

Quote
The movement involves running, jumping and climbing in the fastest, safest way in a reach or escape emergency situation.
Also, i think I've said this before but Parkour involves ANY movement to aid the practitioner in a reach/escape situation. That can include shit like biting, scratching, digging, kicking, rolling, swimming blah blah blah. Running, jumping and climbing is a youtube simplification, it's what people want us to say...

Australian Parkour Association

Re: Defining what we do
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2010, 05:26:27 PM »
tans martial arts

Declan (the purple shirt)

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Re: Defining what we do
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2010, 06:07:17 PM »


You can't define parkour just by showing them movements, you have to use words.

I don't believe that Parkour can be explained even by using words. I always tend to go back to the saying "you cant explain Parkour you can only train Parkour". That is why when ever I am approached about what I am doing I always offer to let the approaching person train with me or give them details about the APA classes. I think everyone will eventually find their own definition of Parkour through their own training and experience, I also believe that this definition will change as they continue to train.

I don't believe we will ever be able to define Parkour in words, but I will check this thread regularly because I am interested to see what others think on this subject.
You can't explain Parkour you can only train Parkour

Re: Defining what we do
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2010, 06:27:53 PM »
You can explain virtually anything using words. Parkour shouldn't be any different, its founding philosophies are no more complex than the average sport. Someone defined what they named Parkour, therefore that definition of Parkour is correct. If you're doing anything else, it's not Parkour. You can elaborate infinitely on unforeseen aspects or intricacies, but the actual definition remains the same. The Parkourpedia definition is a good example of this, they've added many other benefits and aspects to Parkour without contradicting the original definition. While we will keep finding and discussing hundreds of facets of Parkour, the definition remains rock solid. We work around it, it doesn't work around us.  A to B, whatever that encompasses. If it means you have to fight off a army of Peruvian midgets and play checkers with a contortionist ironing board on the way, then that is Parkour. If you decide to do a movement which will slow you down, that is not Parkour.

Re: Defining what we do
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2010, 09:01:32 PM »
I think that if worded correctly, that parkour can be defined, although, someone inexperienced may not understand. Understanding parkour is completely different.
Most people who have asked me to explain parkour to them don't really understand the concepts. Some may know the meaning of the words and such, but understanding the true meaning of those words in respect to the movement in terms of philosophy and mental aspects is something new to them.

For example, a simple jump. The first time you make a big gap and you have that mental mind block, overcoming that mental obstacle and committing is what i find to be a good example of the mental aspects of parkour and also philosophy in some ways. Although, someone who has never attempted or committed to a jump like that would probably not feel as strongly about it as someone who has experienced it would. It even sounds stupid to some people.

Hainesy

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Re: Defining what we do
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2010, 01:23:33 PM »
Quote from: Sample
Freerunning – The exploration of human movement which evolved out of Parkour.

ADD – French people doing Freerunning.

So this means I can never ever do ADD, while Seb and other french people can never ever do freerunning?

I understand the need for simplicity, but I think as a written definition that it is not good enough.

(I'll post more when I finish work)

Re: Defining what we do
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2010, 01:37:45 PM »
This means that they are the same thing

Eliot

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Re: Defining what we do
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2010, 06:38:28 PM »
What is Kung Fu?

rifk

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Re: Defining what we do
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2010, 07:18:02 PM »
What is living?

Hainesy

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Re: Defining what we do
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2010, 01:10:29 PM »
The parkourpedia defines AoD and Freerunning differently.  If they are the same then that is one article you should rewrite Chippa.

And if they are the same why do we have different definitions.  It would be simpler to say "The Art of Displacement is x,y,z.  And Freerunning an english word refering to the same thing.

Re: Defining what we do
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2010, 02:30:16 PM »
But are they really the same?
---------PARKOUR---------           www.melbourneparkour.com
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Re: Defining what we do
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2010, 04:03:20 PM »
it all depnds on who you ask.

if you read the definitions its pretty much

Parkour by David Belle
Freerunnning by Sebastien Foucan
LADD by Majestic Force

the definitions are a starting point. they aren't supposed to be the beginning and end. Useful for people doing research, but for those who actually want to understand it on a deeper level people will have to actual train it with the right people to understand what it is all about and how the definitions do, and don't matter


Hainesy

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Re: Defining what we do
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2010, 02:31:41 PM »
I understand people have to train parkour to get a better understanding of what it is and how it applies to life.

The problem I have with that is people will be deciding on parkour (eg. like making laws on it) without having trained it.  Some people will never train it (for various reasosn like lack of time).  We can't say to them 'if you haven't trained parkour then you won't understand what it's all about.'

So we need a simple and clear definition (as a starting point) for parkour.  Yet 10 Melbourne Instructors can't agree on a definition.

Re: Defining what we do
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2010, 02:33:35 PM »
how do you intend on enforcing this definition?

Australian Parkour Association

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